• Ju mer ju bättre

    Regeringens el-fiasko

    I fredags var elen 1600 procent dyrare i södra Sverige jämfört med norra.

    Enligt Löfvén har elöverskottet aldrig varit större. Vilken sopa. Nu kommer den elkris som oppositionen varnade för. Total oförmåga att se helheten.

  • Svar på tråden Regeringens el-fiasko
  • Flash Gordon

    Och det här är alltså professor Söder

    twitter.com/Nick3Nyfiken/status/1441641823299153922

    Tycker att ett fungerande system med "förnybart" är bättre än ett system med kärnkraft.

    Låter helt bli att ta med i resonemanget att ett system med "förnybart" inte fungerar - bevisat redan nu av skenande priser och kapacitetsbrist.


    Jag har aldrig uppfattat att VPK inte stod upp för demokratin, Stefan Löfven
  • Padirac
    Flash Gordon skrev 2021-09-25 11:13:33 följande:
    Och det här är alltså professor Söder

    twitter.com/Nick3Nyfiken/status/1441641823299...

    Tycker att ett fungerande system med "förnybart" är bättre än ett system med kärnkraft.

    Låter helt bli att ta med i resonemanget att ett system med "förnybart" inte fungerar - bevisat redan nu av skenande priser och kapacitetsbrist.
    Det är marknaden, marknadens utsträckning och marknadens aktörer som sätter priset, priset är dessutom satt efter marginalpriset och har mycket litet med förnybart eller inte förnybart att göra.

    Med marknadspris kommer priset inte att på sikt kunna hållas under resten av priset på elmarknaden i EU eller EUs elmarkanadsparter. 
  • Fiskpinnen i frysboxen
    KillBill skrev 2021-09-25 07:52:48 följande:
    Jag utgår inte från önsketänk utan från officiell statistik på hur mycket el som producerats i Sveriges kärnreaktorer. Differensen mellan våra siffror kan förklaras av att produktionen vid OKG var väldigt låg under den period du refererar till eller så var produktionen före och efter den period du refererar till mycket lägre.
    För att ge dig lite perspektiv citerar jag en debattartikel i ny teknik. Men först konstaterar vi att Sveriges energipolitik är helt idiotisk. Svenska folket är de stora förlorarna på politikernas inkompetens.

    De politiker som orsakar stor skada borde få betala vad de ställer till med ur egen ficka. De är miljöbovar av värsta sort och agerar aktivt för större koldioxidutsläpp, vilket är helt fruktansvärt.

    'Jag har i tidigare debattartiklar hävdat att ?den vindkraft vi har räcker till 2040?. Det är provokativt när det myndigheter och lobbyister hävdar att total omställning till vindkraft krävs för att nå Parisavtalet och det är det som gäller.

    Min tes är, att eftersom nästan hela vår elproduktion är klimatneutral är elproduktionens Parisavtal redan uppfyllt och den som vill göra mer på den sidan får mycket högre utfall av sin insats genom att verka för att Tyskland slutar stänga sin kärnkraft för att slippa brunkolen.


    Vi i Sverige är i den smakliga situationen att vi bör sträva efter att förse landet med billigast möjliga säkra elförsörjning. Målet är detsamma som det varit i 100 år! Metoden är alltid föränderlig.


    Vad vi nu behöver är inte fler vindkraftverk som bara går 15 procent av tiden utan att dessa kraftproducenter installerar komplementkraft till sina 15 procentiga snurror. Det sker inte utan förändrad tillståndsprövning. Starten bör vara att pausa alla vindkrafttillstånd och helt koncentrera sig på att ge tillstånd till komplementkraft.'

  • Fiskpinnen i frysboxen
    KillBill skrev 2021-09-25 08:45:10 följande:

    Professor om oljebränningen: De gör det för att tjäna pengar

    www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/0GLmW2/professor-om-oljebranningen-de-gor-det-for-att-tjana-pengar


    Det är vår usla regering som gjort det så här lönsamt att elda olja. Vänstern borde sluta gnälla på att klimatutsläppen ökar. Tvärtom borde ni vara nöjda, det är ju ni som velat få det så här.
  • Padirac
    Fiskpinnen i frysboxen skrev 2021-09-25 18:51:49 följande:
    Det är vår usla regering som gjort det så här lönsamt att elda olja. Vänstern borde sluta gnälla på att klimatutsläppen ökar. Tvärtom borde ni vara nöjda, det är ju ni som velat få det så här.
    Nädå,

    det är nordpool som gjort det lönsamt - nordpool är inte en del av regeringen och regeringen är inte en del av nordpool

    Se här - det är två helt skilda organisationer

    www.nordpoolgroup.com/

    "Power is a vital element that supports our lives at home and at work. As power production and transmission capacity has been extended over the years, transmission of power between countries has become more common. As a result a dynamic market has evolved where power can be bought or sold across areas and countries more easily. Supply and demand set the price

    The power price is determined by the balance between supply and demand. Factors such as the weather or power plants not producing to their full capacity can impact power prices.


    Today, there is general agreement among politicians and other stakeholders that this model serves society well. While the price of power is determined according to supply and demand, it also becomes clear where there are issues in the grid when the price of power goes up. This makes it easier to identify where production or capacity is lacking, as there is too high demand compared to production supply.


    Integrating Nordic and Baltic markets

    The Nordic countries deregulated their power markets in the early 1990s and brought their individual markets together into a common Nordic market. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania deregulated their power markets, and joined the Nord Pool market in 2010-2013.


    The term ‘deregulation’ means that the state is no longer running the power market, and instead that free competition is introduced. Deregulation was undertaken to create a more efficient market, with exchange of power between countries and increased security of supply. Available power capacity can be used more efficiently in a large region compared to a small one, and integrated markets enhance productivity and improve efficiency.


    An emerging European market

    Now that transmission capacity and coupling is in place between the Nordic countries, the European continent and the Baltics, the power market covers large parts of Europe. This means that power from many different sources – hydro, thermal, nuclear, wind and solar –  enters the grid. This ensures a more ‘liquid’ market, where large volumes are traded daily, and a more secure power supply.


    Financial market

    Financial contracts are used for price hedging and risk management. The contracts have a time horizon up to ten years, covering daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly and annual contracts. The system price calculated by Nord Pool is used as the reference price for the financial market in the Nordic region.


    There is no physical delivery for financial power market contracts. Cash settlement takes place throughout trading – and/or the delivery period, starting at the due date of each contract, depending on whether the product is a future.


    Technical conditions such as grid congestion and access to capacity are not taken into consideration when entering financial contracts. However, with the help of the financial power market, buyers and sellers can  manage the risks associated to the physical market prices.

    ...


    Nord Pool AS


    Tel. +47 6710 9100


    P.O. Box 121


    1325 Lysaker, Norway"


    www.nordpoolgroup.com/the-power-market/The-market-members/

    "


    The power market has an advanced trading pattern with many actors involved: system operators, producers, distributors, traders, brokers, clearing companies, financial analysts etc.


    360 customers from 20 countries trade in the Nord Pool markets and our customers are typically power producers, suppliers and traders. Large end-users also trade on the markets and buy power directly through Nord Pool rather than through a supplier.


    Transmission system operators (TSOs)

    A system operator is responsible for an area to be electrically stable, and for the security of supply in his area. 


    The system operators have the responsibility for both the security of supply and the high-voltage grid (the transmission grid).


    Producers

    There are more than 370 companies responsible for power production in the Nordic and Baltic countries.


    In a year with normal rain and snow fall, hydro power accounts for half of the Nordic countries’ electricity demand.


    In Norway almost all power is generated by hydro power while Sweden and Finland have a mixture of hydro, nuclear and thermal power (steam driven). Denmark uses predominantly thermal power, but wind power is becoming increasingly important. In Estonia and Lithuania there is mostly thermal driven power. In dry years, Nordic countries become more dependent on the import of power from other countries: Russia, Estonia, Netherlands, Poland and Germany.


    Production cost varies. Hydro is the cheapest power source. A low level in the hydro reservoirs will mean producers use more expensive sources which will result in a higher production cost. 


    Distributors

    There are around 500 distribution companies in the Nordic and Baltic countries.


    A distributor ensures that power reaches the end-user. Power is transmitted from the power plant through the central grid and the transmission net to the end-user.


    Suppliers

    There are around 380 companies supplying Nordic and Baltic end-users of power.


    A supplier buys power either directly from a producer, or through Nord Pool. In general, a supplier then resells it to small and medium-sized companies and households.


    There is high competition between energy suppliers within each country. Each end-user chooses their preferred supplier and makes a choice between different power contracts. Different types of contracts might be: fixed price contract, market price contract, etc. At present end-users cannot choose a supplier from another country.


    Traders/brokers

    A trader represents the entity which owns the power while the trading process is taking place. For example, the trader may buy power from a producer and sell it to a retailer, or the trader may choose to buy power from one retailer and sell it to another retailer. There are many routes from the producer to the end-user.


    Brokers play the same role in the power market as estate agents do in the property market. A broker does not own power, but instead acts as an intermediary. A retailer may, for example, ask the broker to find a producer who will sell a given amount of power at a given time.


    The end-users

    An end-user of power is either a company or a private household. Every end-user pays for the power consumed to the supplier, he pays for the power transmission to the distributor and he pays taxes. An end-user can choose among a big range of suppliers while he has only one choice with regard to the transmission operator or distributor. Every geographical area has one distributor responsible for the network transmission."


    www.regeringen.se/sveriges-regering/

    "Regeringen styr Sverige och är drivande i arbetet med att förändra våra lagar, och påverkar på så vis utvecklingen i vårt samhälle. Sveriges regering består av en statsminister och 21 ministrar.

    ...


    Kontakt

    Regeringskansliet
    103 33 Stockholm
    Växel 08-405 10 00"



  • Fiskpinnen i frysboxen
    Flash Gordon skrev 2021-09-25 11:09:15 följande:

    Även Miljöpartiet försöker sprida lögner om Karlshamns-situationen

    twitter.com/mikaelgrev/status/1441517785612312586

    Det finns ingen motsättning eftersom att bränna olja är lönsamt p.g.a. det är elbrist. En brist som Mp skapat bl.a. genom att stänga kärnkraftverk. Skäms på er!


    Haha, det är 2021 och våra politiker har lyckats skapa elbrist. Och det finns fortfarande människor som har förtroende för denna skräpregering.
  • Fiskpinnen i frysboxen
    Padirac skrev 2021-09-25 19:03:24 följande:
    Nädå,

    det är nordpool som gjort det lönsamt - nordpool är inte en del av regeringen och regeringen är inte en del av nordpool

    Se här - det är två helt skilda organisationer

    www.nordpoolgroup.com/

    "Power is a vital element that supports our lives at home and at work. As power production and transmission capacity has been extended over the years, transmission of power between countries has become more common. As a result a dynamic market has evolved where power can be bought or sold across areas and countries more easily. Supply and demand set the price

    The power price is determined by the balance between supply and demand. Factors such as the weather or power plants not producing to their full capacity can impact power prices.


    Today, there is general agreement among politicians and other stakeholders that this model serves society well. While the price of power is determined according to supply and demand, it also becomes clear where there are issues in the grid when the price of power goes up. This makes it easier to identify where production or capacity is lacking, as there is too high demand compared to production supply.


    Integrating Nordic and Baltic markets

    The Nordic countries deregulated their power markets in the early 1990s and brought their individual markets together into a common Nordic market. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania deregulated their power markets, and joined the Nord Pool market in 2010-2013.


    The term ?deregulation? means that the state is no longer running the power market, and instead that free competition is introduced. Deregulation was undertaken to create a more efficient market, with exchange of power between countries and increased security of supply. Available power capacity can be used more efficiently in a large region compared to a small one, and integrated markets enhance productivity and improve efficiency.


    An emerging European market

    Now that transmission capacity and coupling is in place between the Nordic countries, the European continent and the Baltics, the power market covers large parts of Europe. This means that power from many different sources ? hydro, thermal, nuclear, wind and solar ?  enters the grid. This ensures a more ?liquid? market, where large volumes are traded daily, and a more secure power supply.


    Financial market

    Financial contracts are used for price hedging and risk management. The contracts have a time horizon up to ten years, covering daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly and annual contracts. The system price calculated by Nord Pool is used as the reference price for the financial market in the Nordic region.


    There is no physical delivery for financial power market contracts. Cash settlement takes place throughout trading ? and/or the delivery period, starting at the due date of each contract, depending on whether the product is a future.


    Technical conditions such as grid congestion and access to capacity are not taken into consideration when entering financial contracts. However, with the help of the financial power market, buyers and sellers can  manage the risks associated to the physical market prices.

    ...


    Nord Pool AS


    Tel. +47 6710 9100


    P.O. Box 121


    1325 Lysaker, Norway"


    www.nordpoolgroup.com/the-power-market/The-market-members/

    "


    The power market has an advanced trading pattern with many actors involved: system operators, producers, distributors, traders, brokers, clearing companies, financial analysts etc.


    360 customers from 20 countries trade in the Nord Pool markets and our customers are typically power producers, suppliers and traders. Large end-users also trade on the markets and buy power directly through Nord Pool rather than through a supplier.


    Transmission system operators (TSOs)

    A system operator is responsible for an area to be electrically stable, and for the security of supply in his area. 


    The system operators have the responsibility for both the security of supply and the high-voltage grid (the transmission grid).


    Producers

    There are more than 370 companies responsible for power production in the Nordic and Baltic countries.


    In a year with normal rain and snow fall, hydro power accounts for half of the Nordic countries? electricity demand.


    In Norway almost all power is generated by hydro power while Sweden and Finland have a mixture of hydro, nuclear and thermal power (steam driven). Denmark uses predominantly thermal power, but wind power is becoming increasingly important. In Estonia and Lithuania there is mostly thermal driven power. In dry years, Nordic countries become more dependent on the import of power from other countries: Russia, Estonia, Netherlands, Poland and Germany.


    Production cost varies. Hydro is the cheapest power source. A low level in the hydro reservoirs will mean producers use more expensive sources which will result in a higher production cost. 


    Distributors

    There are around 500 distribution companies in the Nordic and Baltic countries.


    A distributor ensures that power reaches the end-user. Power is transmitted from the power plant through the central grid and the transmission net to the end-user.


    Suppliers

    There are around 380 companies supplying Nordic and Baltic end-users of power.


    A supplier buys power either directly from a producer, or through Nord Pool. In general, a supplier then resells it to small and medium-sized companies and households.


    There is high competition between energy suppliers within each country. Each end-user chooses their preferred supplier and makes a choice between different power contracts. Different types of contracts might be: fixed price contract, market price contract, etc. At present end-users cannot choose a supplier from another country.


    Traders/brokers

    A trader represents the entity which owns the power while the trading process is taking place. For example, the trader may buy power from a producer and sell it to a retailer, or the trader may choose to buy power from one retailer and sell it to another retailer. There are many routes from the producer to the end-user.


    Brokers play the same role in the power market as estate agents do in the property market. A broker does not own power, but instead acts as an intermediary. A retailer may, for example, ask the broker to find a producer who will sell a given amount of power at a given time.


    The end-users

    An end-user of power is either a company or a private household. Every end-user pays for the power consumed to the supplier, he pays for the power transmission to the distributor and he pays taxes. An end-user can choose among a big range of suppliers while he has only one choice with regard to the transmission operator or distributor. Every geographical area has one distributor responsible for the network transmission."


    www.regeringen.se/sveriges-regering/

    "Regeringen styr Sverige och är drivande i arbetet med att förändra våra lagar, och påverkar på så vis utvecklingen i vårt samhälle. Sveriges regering består av en statsminister och 21 ministrar.

    ...


    Kontakt

     


    Jaså det är Nordpool som subventionerar vindkraften med 33 öre per kWh? Har en en länk som bevisar detta?
  • Stefan99

    Man får hoppas detta är dödsstöten för MP, deras politik fungerar inte i praktiken, frågan är om det är försent att vända detta. Att bygga ut näten mellan norr och söder kommer ta tid, likaså att bygga nytt modernt kärnkraftverk.

    Sverige kommer vara beroende av smutsig brunkol el från Tyskland, bra jobbat MP och S.

    Företag lär också välja andra länder då södra Sverige blir för dyrt. Det bäst är att rösta bort MP ur regeringen.

  • Padirac
    Fiskpinnen i frysboxen skrev 2021-09-25 19:08:02 följande:
    Jaså det är Nordpool som subventionerar vindkraften med 33 öre per kWh? Har en en länk som bevisar detta?
    Priset sätts av marknaden, inte av produktionspriset.  Det har inte med subventioner att göra.

    Men om det vore så att vindkraften inte kördes antar jag att kol och oljekraftverken som finns kopplade till marknaden skulle köras ännu mer än nu och elpriset skulle var satt ännu högre av markanden.
  • Fiskpinnen i frysboxen
    Padirac skrev 2021-09-25 19:13:51 följande:
    Priset sätts av marknaden, inte av produktionspriset.  Det har inte med subventioner att göra.

    Men om det vore så att vindkraften inte kördes antar jag att kol och oljekraftverken som finns kopplade till marknaden skulle köras ännu mer än nu och elpriset skulle var satt ännu högre av markanden.
    Hur energin produceras har solklart med subventioner att göra. Utan kraftiga subventioner hade det inte blivit så många vindkraftverk.

    Jag för min del tror vindkraften är mer lönsam än kolkraften när det väl blåser och subventionerna tickar in till ägarna.
Svar på tråden Regeringens el-fiasko